krazykomrade
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well, it seems that ione thing both scenes have in common is the “im more underground than you are” one upmanship which is pretty rife, especially between systems (albeit in a half joking pisstake way).
I don’t think its as much a one upmanship, is conflicting scene values on what exactly “underground” is. Underground is a very subjective term, I’m sure we can all agree, and I think that with our scenes having such varied backgrounds and total differences in the popularity of various genres and practical external factors, that our respective scenes have different defintions of “underground” as well as different defintions of “hardcore.” Its just fun to try and figure out exactly what the other guy means when they say it.
I wasnt meaning it like that….I just think that MOH and this AZ hardcore sounds very similar and thusly would class them as the same thing and MOH is not exactly underground as you can see from the type of festivals they put on. That is why I classs them as commercial as a lot of money is put into the gigs.
As mentioned above, I’m just trying to figure out how our scenes have different reasoning. You said MOH is commercial, because they put a lot of money into their gigs. But the hardcore samples you listened to are commercial because of their sound, and similar style to MOH? Personally, here in AZ that MOH stuff wouldn’t fly. Its the type of “hardcore” that gets played on radio stations (The local one called “Energy” here, has been stealing venues from our scene and is more of a threat than the cops) along with “club” house and stuff on MTV. A different group of people listen to that type of dance music in major clubs we have downtown, than the group of people who go to underground events. Regardless of the popularity of various genres, it seems wierd to class one group as commercial because of their finances, and another group because of its sound.
and as with any genre there are smaller artists….like the ones you mentioned. It was a bit of an exageration saying it is made by some random guy in his house…..that track that i gave you was in fact as a guy i met online made it in fruity loops, so its not a great track just the first one i could find hosted online. TBH I dont see why youl wouldnt want to listen to music produced at home, if the guy has the equiptment what difference does it make if he produced it at home or not.
I had a problem with the “random guy” not the producing at home. All of the tracks that are produced in AZ are produced at the artists homes; there are no where near anyone big enough to have their own studio. Most artists here only produce a few hundred CDs, some of our headliners more because they travel out of state.
While AZ hardcore may be very underground it is IMO very similar in sound to the stuff I linked. The tracks I linked to were just ones I saw at the time…this, is more similar I think. I’m not saying I don’t like it I do….just I prefer “french hardcore” because of the rolling basslines and the reduced cheese factors.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. Well, except for the samples sounding similar, your sample seems to stick out like a sore thumg to me, and I figured that mine would to you too. Our scenes have INVERSE opinions of what hardcore is. The “french” hardcore I sampled with the rolling basslines (Dnb what?) would be considered pretty cheesy in Arizona, while the hardcore I sampled is considered evil hardcore, the least cheesy of all, here. I’m sure it somehow goes back to different patterns of music and which styles have been popular such and such long to determine whats considered what. Ya know?
LOL, that angerfist track reminds me of the previews for a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie. Evil activities sounds a lot like LA hardcore, a bit simpler with greater emphasis on but less tact with consistant samples. That french hardcore is….. wierd. Kinda what I’d expect from “french hardcore.” I don’t know, maybe I’m just not used to it. Seems kinda like a fortune 500 CEO trying to start playing the blues… doesn’t really seem to fit.
No offense, but I wouldn’t want to listen to something knocked together by a random guy at his home. That second sample I listed, Choke Bitches II, has probably 200 copies in existence. And CIK was playing live, the only tracks of that are ones downloaded of the internet from what people recorded at his set. Just because a DJ is well known, doesn’t mean they’re commercial. Perhaps things are different on different sides of the pond.
That vid shouldn’t take too long at all…
I just have a cable internet connection. Thats pretty standard here.
elretardo87 wrote:Been out all weekend so I missed this thread. Anyhow…I do like my hardcore. hardcore has not died. Old school hardcore is still alive and kicking….just a bit more difficult to find as most of it is French. I have always known true oldschool hardcore as French hardcore just because…that sounds a bitty like this. This stuff is immense and pisses over any other type of hardcore IMO.The links you gave, to hardcore are to the new school more commercial hardcore you’ll find on masters of hardcore or thunderdome. I do really like this stuff as well….especially guys like Angerfist and evil activities (just a sample). As you can probably tell from the angerfist track…its just a bitty cheesey sometimes.
Now happy hardcore…I’m not going to say much as I can rant for hours on this subject. Basically I hate it…with a passion. Just really not my cup of tea.
Can’t listen to those yet cuz I’m at work now; I’ll check them out later tonight. You think that’s got a newschool sound? Thats insane; I’d say the exact opposite. Here that is somewhat oldschool, and about as UN-commercial as you can get. Arizona is known for its more underground feel and sound to its hardcore and DJs, California has always been our bigger and more commercial, played out brother. I’ve never heard of French Hardcore. Suppose I’ll have to wait till I can listen to your links to see what your “less commercial” hardcore sounds like.Here is a video, pics, and audio from one of our better events, Kandieland II. Hopefully this can give you an idea of what parties are like in Arizona. The lighing is kinda dark (go figure) but you can catch your own Scott Brown.
Audio: DJ Nimh & Starr vs. DJ Sixxx & Rize featuring MC’s Simon Apex, Stylee, Tek & M.G. – Live @ Kandieland II – 4.9.05 –
Part 1 – 56.4 MB
Part 2 – 53.6 MBSo a rig or soundsystem is a group with its own sound equipment, and DJs, all of only one genre? That sounds crazy! Here, we have seperate sound crews that JUST do sound alone, and you can hire the crews to be at different events. Some crews have better quality, or more bass, or whatnot, and all charge different prices. Then there are production companies, which throw the actual parties. Some production companies have DJ’s “signed” with them, but the DJs play at events thrown by ANY production company. That way, you can throw a multi genre event, with different sound according to your priorities to the genres, all by one production company. Its like the Production company is the director, the DJs are the actors, and the sound crew is the video editing and special effects. You can mix and match them however you prefer.
That article made me sick. There was similar Dateline special here in America that I swear that article must have been based off of. Our law enforcement here has a “don’t ask, don’t tell” attitude towards our scene, and we don’t do anything to bother anyone else or get complaints, and the police don’t bother us. However, if some fucker shot his shotgun into the sound equipment at a party in AZ, that fool would have been SHOT DEAD long before the police ever arrived. Raves here start at 9, and end at 5 or 6, so that everything can be cleaned up and packed up before day breaks, so that the next morning no one would even know there was a party.
Well, the rave from that photo is a desert party. You just drive your car out in the desert, and all park around a clearing where the rave is. If you can fit it in your car, you can bring it to the rave! People bring hookahs, tents, picnic gear, BBQs, and all sorts of stuff. Thats one of the advantages to desert parties, is that you can always walk 50 feet to your car and get whatever you want.
If you have some time, check out these samples so you can see what I am talking about. I know you’ve never heard of these guys, but try them out and see what you think; they’re our local Superstars for a reason.
AZ Hardcore:
Cik at Nocturnal WonderlandAZ Happy Hardcore:
DJ Sixxx – Choke Bitches 2 (winzip file, well worth the extra minute to download)If you’re interested in more of the like, just AIM me or email me or something.
Thats just a sample of how we do. 🙂Hardcore being resigned to history! BLASPHEMY!
Hardcore and DnB are the two major (somewhat competing) genres in the AZ scene. Hardcore was the original, then DnB broke off of it. Jungle came off of that. It all goes back to hardcore; the original. In fact, hardcore fans make up the greatest percentage of ravers at most parties here.
The scene here crashed in 2001 when Sammy “The Bull” Gravano (mob boss) got busted for basically having a monopoly on the ecstasy market in the southwestern United States. Hardcore began to die out, as the more “rebel” genres became more popular. Within the past year and half, however, the scene is rebuilding itself and exploding back up to its former glory, and Hardcore is the frontrunner genre that is leading the rest. I’ll post some samples of Arizona Hardcore when I get home, so you can see what I mean by hardcore, and compare it by your standards.
The scene in Arizona is united under one website: AZ Infoline. That is the central website where all events are planned, discussed, and promoted, and where the entire scene communicates with each other. Its our backbone. There are several smaller sites that belong to individual production companies such as Cheddarcore Production, AZ Hardcore Junkies, or 602 Productions.
Cops baton rushing you? Damn, I can’t believe that. Thats unheard of here. I think there is still a whisp of cowboy mentality in Arizona, that police brutality would be met with switchblades and fighting back. However, the greater problem here is drunks or campers or gangs showing up with weapons and scaring the partygoers. Its a tricky issue to resolve, since we can’t exactly call the cops on them. Theres only been two or 3 parties busted in the past year and a half, and both of those the police were very by the book, and politely told us that the party has to be shut down.
Our “illegal” or outlaw parties all take place in the vast Arizona desert, far from the police, nosy neighbors, and anyone who would object. All of our legal venues (warehouses) are legally rented, and have hired proffesional security at most of them. Located in the industrial or warehouse districts, there are also no noise ordinances. For those reasons, the cops cannot bust the party. Only real reasons are underage drinking or not having a liquor license for selling alcohol, although most events do not have significant alcohol ammounts (except what the drunks, I mean DnB heads, bring in).
Most of our events the cops don’t even know about, because on the fliers we have here, there is just an “infoline number.” ITs just a telephone number of someone throwing the party, that you only call the night of the event at like 6pm or 7pm. They leave the directions and mapoints on their voicemail, so everyone just calls and gets the directions an hour before the party. This system has been fairly successful at keeping the events underground.
I’m not familiar with the term, all one word “freeparty,” but in Arizona there are few parties for free. They almost all cost money, at least $5 or $10. The music is predominanly Hardcore, DnB, Trance, HHC, and breaks. There is a pretty equal distribution among genres at most parties. There is also to a lesser degree some house, techno, jungle, and “turntablism” and hiphop. I am not familiar with “gabber” at all, we don’t have that here.
Sucks about the problems you seem to have with the pigs. Have you guys developed any systems or ways to try and minimize or combat this problem?
Indeed I was. Sorry for not clarifying. HHC for Happy Hardcore is analagous to me as using DnB instead of typing Drum and Bass.
Thanks for those reccomendations! I’m checking out their respective site right now. I really don’t care for the club scene myself… but I’ve been told that there is some talent there thats hard to find elsewhere. I already heard of the End, that place is kinda legendary here in AZ to the DnB heads. And I’m moving to England, not a tourist, for clarification. Whats your all’s underground scene like? Any underground hardcore? Underground websites? Hows the situation with the heat?
